1 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,400 This is a replica of the Apollo 11 Lander, 2 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:21,520 the craft that touched down on the moon's surface on 30th July 1969. 3 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:24,440 But it's now nearly 50 years 4 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,880 since Neil Armstrong took his first step onto the moon's surface 5 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,640 and 46 years since the last astronaut left the moon. 6 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,640 For a long time, it seemed that lunar exploration 7 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,360 had fallen out of fashion. 8 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,440 But, now, for the first time in decades, 9 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,080 it feels like we're on the verge of a lunar revolution. 10 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,320 There are a host of new missions to the moon 11 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,280 either in progress or on the drawing board. 12 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,720 And just last month, many of the world's leading lunar scientists 13 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,840 gathered in Manchester to discuss this surge of interest in the moon. 14 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,480 This month on The Sky At Night, 15 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,440 in the first of two programmes dedicated 16 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:14,760 to the 50th anniversary of the moon landings, 17 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,240 we'll be looking into this new era of lunar exploration 18 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,840 and asking when it will be that humans return to the moon. 19 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,360 Here at the Science Museum in London, they're launching 20 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,920 their Summer Of Space by installing a new exhibit. 21 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,880 The Soyuz capsule that brought Tim Peake back to Earth 22 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,120 from the International Space Station in 2016. 23 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,640 It's part of plans to commemorate the 50th anniversary 24 00:02:12,640 --> 00:02:15,360 of the first Apollo landings. 25 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,440 But, as well as looking back, there's now a real sense 26 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,920 that we will soon be returning to the moon. 27 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,480 I was born in '72, so the year that Gene Cernan, 28 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,640 the last man on the moon, left the surface, 29 00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:31,000 so it left a sort of legacy for me. 30 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,440 I'm really looking forward to getting back 31 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:34,760 to the surface of the moon, 32 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,360 and I think that's going to be hugely inspiring 33 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,160 to a brand-new generation of scientists and engineers. 34 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,400 This new race to the moon has already started. 35 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,960 The Orion Spacecraft is a collaboration between Nasa and ESA 36 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,120 that's been designed to carry the next generation of astronauts 37 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,560 towards the moon... 38 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,760 ..where the plan is to dock with the Lunar Gateway, 39 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,600 a mini version of the International Space Station 40 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,240 that will be in permanent orbit around the moon. 41 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:14,280 From there, the crew will board a lander 42 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,560 and descend to the lunar surface. 43 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,520 Although the Orion capsule is already undergoing flight tests, 44 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,720 the gateway and the lunar lander 45 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,600 are still very much on the drawing board. 46 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,600 So most people thought that this was going to be a long-term project, 47 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,520 taking 20 or even 30 years. 48 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:37,400 But earlier this year, 49 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,160 the Trump administration made a surprise announcement. 50 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,000 It is the stated policy of this administration 51 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,320 and the United States of America to return American astronauts 52 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,120 to the moon within the next five years. 53 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,480 Five years seems like an impossibly tight schedule. 54 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,040 So while I was in Manchester, 55 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,160 I cornered Nasa's chief scientist Jim Green. 56 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,280 What's new at Nasa and the moon? There's exciting plans ahead. 57 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:11,760 Oh, absolutely. 58 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,400 I mean, our plans now are REALLY exciting 59 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,320 because we've moved our timescale up. 60 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,600 We are planning to put the next man and the first woman 61 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,520 on the surface of the moon by 2024. 62 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,680 Which is, in space terms, is incredibly fast. 63 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,320 It is, it is very fast but, I mean, it's stuff we've done before. 64 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,680 So why does the moon matter? As Nasa's chief scientist, why, 65 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,640 scientifically, does the moon matter? 66 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,160 You know, we're constantly making enormous progress 67 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,920 understanding our planets with our robotic programs... 68 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,400 ..not only Mars but even in the outer part 69 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,560 of the solar system with Cassini... Yeah, yeah. 70 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,560 ..at Saturn and then Juno at Jupiter... 71 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,320 ..flyby of Pluto. 72 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:59,160 So our initial survey of the entire solar system is now complete. 73 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,600 Now we're moving into a more in-depth understanding, 74 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,880 and that requires that we go back to the moon. 75 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:06,880 Why send people? We've talked in the past 76 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,600 about the great success of robotic missions to Mars, 77 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,040 to the outer planets you mentioned. Why people? 78 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,800 Well, for that you have to think a little further ahead. 79 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,200 And the little further ahead is Mars. 80 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:23,680 Mars is a place, much like Earth, that has an atmosphere. 81 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,920 It has carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, 82 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,520 phosphorus and sulphur in its soils. 83 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,360 It has nitrates. 84 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,360 It has moisture in the soils. 85 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,360 We can grow food at Mars. 86 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:41,600 We actually can terraform Mars, live and work at Mars. OK? 87 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,960 With that, the ultimate goal, and the fact that it is far away, 88 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,960 what better place to practise than the moon? 89 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,160 And, so, a lot of things that we're going to be doing at the moon 90 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,200 is literally the same kind of things 91 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,240 that we're going to be doing at Mars. 92 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:57,640 Well, look, it's really exciting. 93 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,800 I want to ask you one last question, which is this. Mm-hm. 94 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,960 Lots of us are big fans of the space programme and Nasa... 95 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:05,360 So am I. Yeah! 96 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,320 ..and we follow these missions and we look forward to them. 97 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:09,640 I can't think of a mission 98 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,680 that was developed in five years from scratch to launch. Sure, sure. 99 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,280 Mars 2020 has taken a decade, 100 00:06:15,280 --> 00:06:17,280 because these things are complicated... Sure. 101 00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:19,000 ..so are we really going to get there? 102 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:23,080 Well, it's not from scratch. We've been working on it for years. OK? 103 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,040 We're nearly done with the development of the rocket 104 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:30,120 called the Space Launch System, SLS, that will take us there. 105 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:35,040 Our first test flights are going to be in 2020, next year. 106 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:39,280 And then we will do several before we then land humans on the surface. 107 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:43,160 You know, we're really almost probably 80/85% there. 108 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,880 And, so, the schedule is such that we have a lot to do, 109 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,320 there's a number of important things that we need to complete, 110 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:51,960 but we have the ability to do it. 111 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,280 What's the most difficult thing that's remaining? 112 00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:55,880 What's the biggest job? 113 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,800 To me, it's really all about the landing system with humans. 114 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,040 It's all about that end phase, right, 115 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,480 where we actually get down to the surface. 116 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,320 We have a whole series of missions that are robotic 117 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,080 that will look, test out, get us ground truth 118 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,200 and then figure out where we'll go. 119 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:17,400 The astronauts are being trained on how the lunar surface looks 120 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,120 and where they will go and the science that we want them to do. 121 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,920 So we're making good progress there. Yeah. So that's what we've... 122 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,120 Crack that and then you can... Well, we got good time to do it. 123 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,160 All right. Well, good luck. Thank you. 124 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,480 Come back and tell us how you get on. That would be great. 125 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,840 All right. Invite me back. Five years' time. Five years. 126 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,920 Take care. Thanks, Jim. My pleasure. Thank you. Cheers. 127 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:38,400 I have to say, 128 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,640 I'm still very sceptical about that five-year target. 129 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,120 It's not clear where Nasa might get the necessary funds 130 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:49,040 and, so, we'll probably be waiting a while before we see astronauts 131 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,520 standing on the surface of the moon again. 132 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,520 But there IS a growing feeling that we WILL be returning. 133 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,640 There you go. 134 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,640 And as Maggie discovered when she visited the offices 135 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,400 of pioneering architects Foster + Partners, 136 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,360 plans are already under way for a permanent base on the moon. 137 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,840 I'm really excited about this, it looks fantastic. 138 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,720 So, yeah, what was your brief for this project? 139 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,280 So what you're seeing here is a project where we were asked 140 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,440 by the European Space Agency to design a habitat on the moon 141 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,160 for about four astronauts who would stay there for a few months. 142 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,320 And the idea was also very much in the brief 143 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,720 to use novel and modern technologies to build the space. 144 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,160 So when you say novel and modern, 145 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,000 what sort of thing are you talking about? 146 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,040 So here is the sequence of how the building sequence works. 147 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:46,520 We bring from Earth a cylinder, 148 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,800 and out of the cylinder we have this big inflatable 149 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,120 that comes and provide us with a much bigger space. 150 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:52,960 And so that's what you can kind of see here, 151 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,240 the inflatable is there, yet is very vulnerable, 152 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,840 and that's where you see the little robots come in. 153 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,280 And these robots actually scan the terrain. 154 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,320 They pick up the dust of the moon, which is called regolith... Yes. 155 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,160 ..and they use that to gradually 3D print 156 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,200 a protective shell around this very fragile inflatable. 157 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,280 But the idea is that the robots work a bit as a colony of ants 158 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,080 and they drive around and kind of work together 159 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,360 to start covering this structure until it's completely protected. 160 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,240 Why do you need so much protection? 161 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,280 There's virtually no atmosphere on the moon. 162 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,040 So what are you protecting against? Yeah. So the moon has no atmosphere, 163 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:26,880 so that means that you're very exposed 164 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:28,360 from all the harshness of space, 165 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,760 so there are very extreme temperature fluctuations, 166 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,480 it can get very, very warm during the day, 167 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:33,800 very cold during the night. 168 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:35,800 There is also radiation coming from the sun 169 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:37,680 that we are protected from here on Earth, 170 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:39,520 and there is also micro meteorites, 171 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,440 so they are very small but very dangerous and very powerful, 172 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,120 and that's why you need this massive shell, 173 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:45,680 to basically protect a balloon. 174 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:48,200 So what would it be like within the structure? 175 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,080 So these cylinders are very similar 176 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,280 to the ones on the International Space Station. 177 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,480 And that's kind of the core of our building, 178 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,160 so that is where all the life support systems are. 179 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,040 That's where all the scientific instruments are, and so on. 180 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,240 What are these structures here? Are they windows? Yes. 181 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,680 What we've learned from the International Space Station 182 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:08,720 is that this ability to look out, and this connection with Earth, 183 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,160 is actually very important 184 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,800 for the psychological health of the astronauts. 185 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,040 And I think that's something that we explored a lot in this design, 186 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,520 is also understanding that when you send people there to live 187 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,240 for a while, it's very important that they are actually 188 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,880 enjoying their work but also enjoying their lives. Yes. 189 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,800 But when do you think this will come to fruition? 190 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,520 Cos the idea of lunar bases has been around for a while. 191 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:31,920 Do you think something like this 192 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:33,920 can come into fruition in the near future? 193 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,560 Again, it really depends on who has the commitment 194 00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:38,560 and the money to do it. Yes. 195 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:42,320 If a company would say, "We want to spend all the money in the world 196 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,160 "to do this," it could happen almost tomorrow. 197 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,720 So the million dollar question, would you go? 198 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,080 I would definitely go. I would like to come back. 199 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,680 But I would definitely love to go and have a look. 200 00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:54,360 Well, I guess we'll watch this space 201 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,280 and see if it all comes to fruition in the future. Thank you. 202 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:58,720 You're very welcome. 203 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:06,400 Building permanent bases like this on the surface of another world 204 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,440 will be the next giant leap forward 205 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,160 in our exploration of the solar system. 206 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,520 It may be many years away, but in the meantime, 207 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:19,760 we're still learning more about the moon 208 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,680 from the experiments left behind by the Apollo astronauts... 209 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:25,840 ..as Pete has been investigating. 210 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,000 When we look up at the moon 211 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,360 and see the same face always looking back at us, 212 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,880 it is easy to think that it is a static, dead world. 213 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,160 It can be hard to believe that this rock was once alive 214 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,760 with volcanic and geologic activity. 215 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,560 Even more surprisingly, 216 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,920 a paper published by Nature in May 217 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,880 revealed that seismometers left behind on the moon 218 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,240 by the Apollo missions had picked up tremors. 219 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,240 Moon quakes which show that the moon is still geologically active, 220 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:03,720 even today. 221 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:10,400 So, tonight, we're going to go looking for the evidence 222 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,360 of that geological activity. 223 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,880 The moon is a big, bright object in the sky. 224 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,800 But to get close in and see some surface detail, 225 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,520 you need a telescope. 226 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,720 Tonight, I want to look for some features which are pretty small, 227 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,480 about a mile or so across. 228 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,920 So I'm employing my 14-inch telescope 229 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,680 and I'm going to use a special camera on the back of it, 230 00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:36,720 which is called a planetary camera - 231 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:38,840 it's a bit like a super version of a webcam - 232 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,320 that's going to take lots and lots of individual images 233 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:42,920 which I can process together, 234 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,600 hopefully to give me a nice, sharp image of the lunar surface. 235 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,480 Right. So what I'm trying to do is locate a feature 236 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,560 on the moon's surface called Rupes Recta, or the Straight Wall. 237 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:04,160 I think some British astronomers actually refer to it as the railway 238 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,320 because it looks like a straight line. 239 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,880 Though it's actually quite difficult to see at the moment 240 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,360 because the phase of the moon is quite full. 241 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,400 But I did manage to get a photograph of it 242 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,640 the other day, when the terminator - 243 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,800 that's the line which divides lunar day and lunar night - 244 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,360 was nearby. When that happens, the angle of the sun 245 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,800 in the lunar sky is quite low, so it casts very dramatic shadows, 246 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,760 and as you can see, the Straight Wall stands out very clearly. 247 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,960 In fact, you can see that it looks exactly 248 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,600 like astronomer Christiaan Huygens described, like a sword, 249 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,160 where you've got the blade, 250 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,080 which is the fault line of the Straight Wall itself 251 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,680 and then the stag horn mountains at the bottom. 252 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:49,520 So it's a rather attractive feature on the moon's surface, 253 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,240 but in reality this is a fault line, 254 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,240 it's believed to be 300 to 400 metres high 255 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,440 and it's actually quite a gentle slope, 256 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,920 even though it looks like a sheer cliff edge 257 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:02,080 when you see photographs of it. 258 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,800 The moon quakes detected by the Apollo seismographs 259 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,960 have recently been discovered to emanate 260 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,280 from similar smaller faults on the moon's surface. 261 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,880 These so-called thrust faults 262 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,560 are too small to be seen from the Earth, 263 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:21,600 but can be seen in this video built from data 264 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,160 from Nasa's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter. 265 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,880 It's thought that the quakes from these faults 266 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,560 would register between two and five on the Richter scale, 267 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,280 strong enough to dislodge boulders that leave tracks 268 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,000 as they roll across the moon's surface. 269 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,080 Geologists believed that the quakes are happening 270 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,520 because the moon is still cooling inside, 271 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,400 and this causes the surface crust to shrink slightly, 272 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,040 giving us cracks in the surface. 273 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,800 Fascinatingly, these quakes happen most frequently around apogee - 274 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,080 that's when the moon is at the furthest point 275 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:57,760 in its orbit from the Earth. 276 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,680 That's when the tidal stresses due to the Earth's gravity 277 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:02,840 are at their greatest. 278 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,880 If you want to know more about what you can see on the moon 279 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,400 from here on Earth, you will find my moon guides, 280 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:13,400 along with this month's star guide on The Sky At Night website. 281 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,040 Happy moon gazing. 282 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,840 So far, we've looked at American and European projects. 283 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,400 But they are by no means the only nations 284 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,440 sending missions to the moon... 285 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,800 ..as I discussed with Science Museum curator Doug Millard. 286 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:35,360 This is it. 287 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:36,760 This is Apollo 10. 288 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,320 So the Apollo 10 command module? That's right. 289 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,240 This is the actual one. 290 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,280 Charlie Brown, of course, that was its call sign. 291 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,120 Went around the moon 50 years ago 292 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,560 and it was the dress rehearsal mission 293 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,560 for the Apollo 11 landing just two months later. 294 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,440 But that was 50 years ago. Yes. 295 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,280 And now it seems there's a resurgence in a sort of interest 296 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,560 in the moon. What do you think is driving that? 297 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,920 Well, I think Apollo, in a way, 298 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,400 sort of blotted out interest for a long time. 299 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:05,720 How do you follow Apollo? 300 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,280 Yes. It covered so much. It does. 301 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,440 But we have new generations now, you know, 302 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,800 coming to the subject with renewed interest. 303 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:13,760 We have new technologies that are a bit cheaper 304 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,240 than they used to be. 305 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,120 Apollo showed the way. We now know how to get to the moon, 306 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,440 how to land on the moon. Doesn't always work. 307 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,280 So there's a greater availability for going to the moon. 308 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,760 During the Cold War, during the space race, it was the 309 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,800 Russians and it was the Americans. Who are the major players now? 310 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,520 Oh, well, they continue to be significant players. 311 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,880 European Space Agency, India, China. 312 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,560 China are, in some ways, replicating what happened during the '60s. 313 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,840 They have a very carefully planned strategic space plan. 314 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,920 In January, the Chang'e 4 mission gave us a best-ever view 315 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:51,720 of the far side of the moon, 316 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,840 as the Chinese became the first nation to make a soft landing 317 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:00,600 on the side of the moon that is permanently hidden from the Earth. 318 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,320 The data the lander and its rover has collected 319 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,600 is already transforming our understanding 320 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,480 of the geology of the far side of the moon. 321 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,560 The mission even managed to successfully germinate cotton seeds, 322 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,080 the first indication that it may one day be possible 323 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:20,920 to grow crops on the moon. 324 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,600 These were major breakthroughs, 325 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,400 and the signs are, there is much more to come. 326 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,080 They are now, this year, looking at a sample return, 327 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:33,800 which will be a lot harder to do. 328 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,480 It's only been done a few times before. 329 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,880 Cos that's going to the moon, landing on the surface, 330 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,720 scooping up and then coming back... And bringing it back here, yes. 331 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,320 And, so, what are China's plans for the future? 332 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,320 I'm sure within a couple of decades, maybe, 333 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,920 we will see Chinese astronauts on the moon. 334 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,480 So, as well as these countries pushing forward to the moon, 335 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,280 we also had commercial companies looking at the moon as well. 336 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,920 Well, that's right. And just recently we had an Israeli company 337 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:58,800 which didn't quite make it. 338 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,440 The spacecraft crashed, but it does raise interesting questions 339 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,040 about commercial activity on the moon. 340 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,080 When you say commercial activity, 341 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,160 are there laws governing it at the moment? 342 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:14,000 Well, there's an Outer Space Treaty, which was first signed in 1967. 343 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,880 There's a Moon Treaty, but it needs revisiting. 344 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,320 It's not quite clear what is possible, what is permissible. 345 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,320 You might have space tourism at some point in the future, 346 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:24,800 and there are ethical questions 347 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,240 about whether we want to continue doing that 348 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,960 or whether we should treat it as a wilderness, 349 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,400 much as we do the Antarctic. 350 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,120 Well, let's see how it all pans out in the future, but thank you. 351 00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:36,720 And it is lovely to see the module. 352 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:38,960 The real thing. Thank you. Thank you. 353 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:41,800 Back in Manchester, 354 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,240 I found scientists who were also preparing to return to the moon, 355 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:51,080 with missions that will help pave the way for the next human visitors. 356 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:57,600 Simeon Barber's project is looking to find water on the lunar surface. 357 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,960 What's particularly exciting about getting to the moon? 358 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:02,720 The moon is an amazing place 359 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,120 and I think we forgot that for a while. 360 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:07,360 And I think that there was almost a feeling 361 00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:09,600 that we've been to the moon and done that. 362 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,160 So one mission that I'm working on at the moment 363 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,360 with The Open University is supporting the European Space Agency 364 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:18,480 who are collaborating with Roscosmos in Russia, 365 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,800 and the spacecraft is called Lunar 27, 366 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,080 and it will land near to the South Pole, 367 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,440 where we expect there to be elevated levels of water in the soil, 368 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,280 or just below the surface of the soil. 369 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,840 It's still odd to me that we talk about water on the moon. 370 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,440 I think of... The moon was supposed to be this dry place 371 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,520 and yet there's all this focus on water. That's right. 372 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,080 Partly that's because the samples that were brought back 373 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,480 by the Apollo missions and Soviet lunar missions 374 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,640 were generally from equatorial regions and... 375 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,440 Just like going to the Sahara desert on Earth, 376 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:49,920 and concluding that it's dry. 377 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,520 Yeah. But the new missions that are being planned now 378 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,360 are actually going to a completely different part of the moon anyway. 379 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:57,440 They're going to near polar regions. 380 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,480 So we know that these regions are amongst the coldest places 381 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,600 in our solar system. They're minus 200 degrees C or colder. 382 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,000 These are craters that never see the sun 383 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,680 and have not seen the sun for billions of years. 384 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,480 So these temperatures are cold enough that molecules such as water, 385 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,680 if they migrate around the surface of the moon, 386 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,200 when they reach these cold traps, they never leave. 387 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,360 Data taken at the moon's poles 388 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:25,400 has revealed huge deposits of water ice, 389 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,440 hidden in the deep shadows of the craters. 390 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,880 But we now believe there's also water stored 391 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,480 within the lunar rocks themselves. 392 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,200 And Simeon's project is trying to find out how much of it there is. 393 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,400 So what's this in front of us? 394 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,720 So this is a spare copy of an instrument that we built 395 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,360 to go and analyse samples on the surface of Mars. 396 00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:52,040 And the reason it's here today 397 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,280 is that we're using parts of this instrument 398 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,440 to inspire us in designing a new instrument 399 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,560 to go and study the moon. So what does it do? 400 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,920 This instrument is designed for analysing solid samples 401 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,640 that are maybe drilled from the surface of the planet. 402 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,320 The samples are popped inside this port here, close the lid, 403 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,920 and then we heat those samples up, it releases gases, 404 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,920 and we analyse those gases to work out what they are 405 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,560 and in what quantities they're present in the sample. 406 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,840 So on the moon, what would that help you do? 407 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:24,080 The moon is kind of a witness that has been a companion to Earth 408 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,520 through time, and it stores information there. 409 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,400 By going there and accessing and studying this water, 410 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,480 we can kind of unravel the history of water 411 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,080 near the Earth through time. 412 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,360 So you go to the moon to find out about the Earth. 413 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,120 And could the water be useful? 414 00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:40,200 Absolutely, yes. So the idea is that if we can find resources 415 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,120 on the surface of the moon - and water is a key resource, 416 00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:46,560 so it's great for servicing human bases... Yes. 417 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,960 Drinking water, sanitation. But, also, water is hydrogen and oxygen. 418 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,080 So if we can separate water into those constituents, 419 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,160 maybe that can be used as a fuel. 420 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,000 It's nice, cos you do the same experiment, you get the science, 421 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,680 but you're also planning for the future of exploration as well. 422 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,560 That's right. Yeah. Well, I hope you get to the moon. 423 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,840 We'll come talk to you when your instruments are on their way. 424 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,360 Please do, yeah. Thanks a lot. Thank you. 425 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,640 The idea of a lunar base like this is not a new one. 426 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,760 Even at the time of the moon landings, 427 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,640 people thought the development was inevitable... 428 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:28,000 ..as Patrick Moore discovered when he met Neil Armstrong in 1970. 429 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,000 Do you think, from your knowledge of the moon, having been there, 430 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,640 that it is going to be possible in the foreseeable future 431 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,680 to set up scientific bases there on anything like a large scale? 432 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,920 Oh, I'm quite certain that we'll have such bases in our lifetime. 433 00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:47,360 Somewhat like the Antarctic stations 434 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:51,240 and similar scientific outposts continually manned. 435 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,360 Although, certainly, there is the problem of the environment, 436 00:22:56,360 --> 00:23:00,120 the vacuum and the high and low temperatures of day and night. 437 00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:02,000 Still, in all, in many ways, 438 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,840 it's more hospitable than Antarctica might be. 439 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,200 There are no storms, no snow, no high winds, 440 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,360 no unpredictable weather phenomena that we're yet aware of, 441 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:16,000 and the gravity is a very pleasant kind of place to work in, 442 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,720 better than here on Earth. 443 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,760 And I think it would be quite a pleasant place 444 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,920 to do scientific work and quite practical. 445 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,280 Today, the comparison with the Antarctic still holds true, 446 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,960 as it's thought that any future moon bases 447 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,520 will operate in a similar manner to Antarctic research stations. 448 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,080 Antarctic bases provide facilities and living quarters 449 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,080 for the hundreds of scientific missions that visit the continent. 450 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,120 There are telescopes for studying the constant views 451 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:50,280 of the polar skies. 452 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,960 But these facilities also act as a base for geologists, 453 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:58,160 climatologists, biologists and other scientists. 454 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,880 And it's thought that a lunar base would work in the same way. 455 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,760 There is a huge amount of science 456 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,520 that we would want to do on the moon. 457 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,960 The far side of the moon is probably the best place in the solar system 458 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,480 to do radio astronomy. 459 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,360 Shielded from all the radio interference from the Earth, 460 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:18,920 it should be possible to monitor the low-frequency radio waves 461 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,640 that can't be detected from this planet. 462 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,160 It's information that could tell us 463 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,040 about the first moments after the Big Bang. 464 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,520 There's also lots of life sciences work to be done. 465 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,800 How can we keep astronauts alive and well on the moon's surface 466 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,080 for long periods of time? 467 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,360 But, crucially, there's so much more to discover 468 00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:41,920 about the moon itself. 469 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,000 Because, as Chris discovered when he met Katie Joy, 470 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,160 we are only beginning to scratch the surface of our nearest neighbour. 471 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,240 This is a lunar meteorite rock, 472 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,840 which we don't know exactly where on the moon 473 00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,280 it's been launched from. 474 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,640 Chemically, it's similar to some places on the far side. 475 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,080 So this could be a bit of the lunar far side right here? It could be. 476 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,200 We are trying to investigate it and ask those sorts of questions. 477 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,680 We're not quite sure exactly where it came from. 478 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,680 So we've spent the day talking to people excited 479 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,640 about going back to the moon, but what, as a scientist, 480 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,720 do we get if we get to go back? What's left to find out? 481 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,480 The moon is really unusual. 482 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,280 You know, it's incredibly large for a rocky body of its size 483 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,160 compared to the planet it's orbiting around, so that tells us 484 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,160 that it's unique in terms of its formation. 485 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,560 It's geologically diverse, it's complex, 486 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,360 there's different regions, white areas and dark areas 487 00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:35,160 that all formed in different ways. 488 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,440 The front and the back, as well, the far side of the... 489 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,120 Yeah, there's asymmetry between the near side 490 00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:42,400 with lots of lava flows that have been erupted there, 491 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,480 compared with the far side, which is mostly white 492 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,760 and probably formed early in the moon's history. 493 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,400 We know that there are volcanic vent sites that tell us about volcanism. 494 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,680 We know that the moon has been impacted 495 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,800 with asteroids and comets through time. 496 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,600 So it tells us about a lot of different scientific questions 497 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,760 that we either can't access here on the Earth, 498 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,840 or it tells us science questions that we can compare and contrast 499 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,640 to other planetary bodies. 500 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,400 The problem is, is a lot of this knowledge, these ideas, 501 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,880 these models have come out of, you know, the data that we collected 502 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,080 from the Apollo missions. 503 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,000 We have this sample collection, but we only have been to six places, 504 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,040 all within a relatively geographically limited area. 505 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,800 And not only that, we know that the Apollo missions 506 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,960 actually visited quite a weird part of the moon. 507 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,240 So, you know, it's the equivalent of trying to understand 508 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:25,880 the whole of the geology of Europe 509 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,040 from just visiting, say, France, or just one small country. 510 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,040 You know, it's that big picture perspective 511 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:32,320 that we're sort of lacking. 512 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,040 So when can we expect some new lunar material? 513 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,080 So, this year. It's really exciting. 514 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,480 We have the next series of the Chinese missions going to the moon. 515 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,080 There's going to be a lander visit the near side of the moon 516 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,000 in a volcanic region in the northern part of the moon 517 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,160 and it's hopefully going to bring back a couple of kilograms of rock 518 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:51,560 back to the Earth. 519 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,160 And there are plans afoot through collaborations 520 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,000 with several American mission proposals 521 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,280 to go and collect samples robotically as well 522 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,960 from different places. So, the next five years, both robots 523 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,880 and then hopefully human beings will be bringing back samples of the moon 524 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,240 to the Earth, and we can study them in our labs 525 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,640 and do some really new, exciting research. 526 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,480 So what are the advantages of sending people on these missions? 527 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,280 Why not just launch a robotic sample return mission? 528 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,160 So, I think you can do both. 529 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,520 Human beings have the capacity to do more complex science experiments 530 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,440 and to, also, you know, inspire people. 531 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,880 So it's not just about going there and doing science with crew, 532 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,800 it's also about providing that human being contact to another world 533 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,280 and acting as a focal point for how we go out there and how we explore. 534 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,720 And, to me, that's as important as the science that can be achieved. 535 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,520 Well, that I agree with. So I hope we get to see it. So do I. 536 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:40,960 Thank you very much. Come back 537 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,840 and tell us when you get some more samples. 538 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,720 That's all we've got time for this month. 539 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,680 But join us in July for the second of our lunar specials. 540 00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:54,600 Altitude 4,200. You're go for landing. Over. 541 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,880 We'll be joined by some old friends to look through the BBC Archives, 542 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:04,040 to see how we covered the build-up to the moon landings 50 years ago. 543 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,280 HE CHUCKLES 544 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,560 We're dealing with an advanced technology of going to the moon 545 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,560 with Stone Age graphics. Love that. 546 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,800 It's fantastic! It's unbelievable! 547 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,680 Also, in the autumn, we'll be hosting a Sky At Night Question Time 548 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,000 where Chris, Peter, myself, as well as some special guests, 549 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,240 will be answering your questions in front of a studio audience. 550 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,800 If you'd like to submit a question, send it through to... 551 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,760 Until then, goodnight.